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hockberg
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Bhakta
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# Posted: 8 Oct 2006 15:29 - Edited by: hockberg
China's Execution buses
China's penal system is surrounded by a wall of secrecy, but a hidden mass slaughter is being carried out, somewhere between three and a-half and ten thousand people being put to death every year.
So many that China is inventing new ways of killing, mobilizing its execution system. This brochure acquired by Sky News reveals the details of new execution buses now operating across China. Fitted with lethal injection equipment, they can deliver on-the-spot executions.
But there may be another reason for them. They make it easier to remove the organs of executed prisoners. In an exclusive report earlier this year, Sky News gathered evidence linking China's execution system and its booming transplant organ industry.
Filming secretly, we posed as the relatives of a man requiring a new liver. Doctors said they could provide the organ with just a few weeks' notice. One reason organs are acquired so quickly, they said, is that they're taken from executed prisoners. Amnesty International says the demand for transplant organs may be driving the high number of executions in China.
Beijing should be stripped of hosting the Olympic games in 2008, I think this should be the case with any World event, if your country has the death penalty you should not be allowed to host the event or participate.
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BandR
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Bhakta
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# Posted: 14 Oct 2006 00:50 - Edited by: BandR
Quoting: hockberg Beijing should be stripped of hosting the Olympic games in 2008, I think this should be the case with any World event, if your country has the death penalty you should not be allowed to host the event or participate.
Now that, hockberg, is a fine idea. It gets my vote.
Could we get AI behind it?
BandR
I believe that Sex with Kama draws me closer to her gods. |
Kama
Devadasi
Gender: Female
Rishi
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# Posted: 14 Oct 2006 21:19
It is funny you should say that but I was wondering if any atheletes would boycot the games because of personal principle...
I believe Sex with Men is Divine and draws me closer to my Gods. Kama's website |
BandR
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Bhakta
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# Posted: 16 Oct 2006 11:52
Quoting: hockberg China's Execution buses
I mentioned your idea to a friend of mine who is involved with Amnesty International. He is interested in taking it up. I take it you would have no objections to that...
Quoting: Kama It is funny you should say that but I was wondering if any atheletes would boycot the games because of personal principle...
Given the impact that olympic training has on the lives of atheletes I think it would be unfair to ask them. If asked, I think very few would be prepared to give up the opportunity to compete.
BandR
xxx
I believe that Sex with Kama draws me closer to her gods. |
Kama
Devadasi
Gender: Female
Rishi
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# Posted: 16 Oct 2006 12:14
I wasn´t thinking of asking, just wondering if any of them would have a chariots of fire moment...?
I believe Sex with Men is Divine and draws me closer to my Gods. Kama's website |
hockberg
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Gender: Male
Bhakta
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# Posted: 16 Oct 2006 12:22
Quoting: BandR I mentioned your idea to a friend of mine who is involved with Amnesty International. He is interested in taking it up. I take it you would have no objections to that...
My idea of banning counties from holding world events that have the death penalty..?
No objections at all... in fact this would be something i would like to get involved in myself.
Please feel to let your friend know i would be happy to help... i can be contacted via pm here or via my email address.
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Kama
Devadasi
Gender: Female
Rishi
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# Posted: 16 Oct 2006 16:35
I would like to see countries that prevent HIV+ people from visiting as tourists etc... from being boycotted by conferences and international events...
Maybe there should be a special new olympic neutral zone in Greece which is administered by the UN or Olympic committee in the same way way that Mt. Athos is semi-independent...
I believe Sex with Men is Divine and draws me closer to my Gods. Kama's website |
hockberg
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Bhakta
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# Posted: 6 Nov 2006 12:37
Saddam Hussein sentenced to death
Quote: UK FOREIGN SECRETARY MARGARET BECKETT
I welcome that Saddam Hussein and the other defendants have faced justice and have been held to account for their crimes.
Appalling crimes were committed by Saddam Hussein's regime. It is right that those accused of such crimes against the Iraqi people should face Iraqi justice.
UK PRIME MINISTER TONY BLAIR refuses to say if Saddam Hussein should face the death penalty - Sky news.
Quote: Mrs Beckett said: "It has always been the case that we do not approve of the death penalty and we will always try to persuade others not to use the death penalty.
I'm confused 
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Chevalian
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Dikshita
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# Posted: 10 Nov 2006 12:41
As soon as you start banning athletes or visitors or goods from countries, or boycotting events in those countries, because of the death penalty or some other political issue you descend into a quagmire where there are no winners, only losers. What if a country officially has no death sentence on the statute book but clandestinely uses torture and assassination? what about all the people in a country who may oppose the political status quo and who will find themeselves shunned or economically damaged not because of their personal views but because of their nationality? and then by the time you've got through your agenda you find there's nowhere you can trade with or hold an international event thus curtailing the chances of cultural exchange and enlightenment? these things sound great as campaigning slogans but often fail the real world test. Going back to the original topic, there are many things we might not like about China (and I've seen some at first hand) but there are also some admirable ones. And if we look back through the history of the Olympics, how many past venues would fall foul of the criteria? no USA Atlanta or Los Angeles games, no Moscow games, or Seoul, or Mexico... maybe Athens and maybe Sydney?
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Cuni
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Gender: Male
Bhakta
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# Posted: 10 Nov 2006 14:44
Maybe so, but an individual taking a stand on an issue and saying I can't compete because the race is on a sunday or because I don't believe in the death penalty is a matter of personal conscience and such stands challenge us to consider our own reasons for participating in such events and better that such participation is considered and informed rather than done in ignorance of such matters.
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BandR
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Bhakta
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# Posted: 12 Nov 2006 00:30
Quoting: Chevalian As soon as you start banning athletes or visitors or goods from countries, or boycotting events in those countries, because of the death penalty or some other political issue you descend into a quagmire where there are no winners, only losers.
I agree. It is of dubious morality (and pointless from a prctical point of view) to attemp to coerce individuals to act according to your own point of view.
Any political attempt to interfere with the freedom of individuals should be resisted.
The same is not true however for states. An attempt to sway the policies of neighboring states closer to your advantage could be used as a definition for diplomacy.
In calling for states, like China and the USA, to be banned from hosting events like the Olympic games I would argue that Chinese and American atheletes must be allowed to compete on the same terms as the UK - where the death penalty is now, thankfully, ancient history.
B&R
I believe that Sex with Kama draws me closer to her gods. |
Frank de Groot
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Bhakta
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# Posted: 12 Nov 2006 14:33
I agree with Chevalian.
Then you have to ban countries that wage illegal wars of genocidal agression as well (Israel, the US etc.) All countries engage in highly immoral behavior. There are precious few positive things left to engage in informal cooperation and dialogue, and the Olympics is one of them..
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BandR
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Bhakta
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# Posted: 12 Nov 2006 23:56
I consider Israel to be a terrorist state: far worst than Iran, Syria, Iraq or North Korea.
But I take your point - you'd be happy to see the 2020 Olympics held in Tehran?
B&R
I believe that Sex with Kama draws me closer to her gods. |
Kama
Devadasi
Gender: Female
Rishi
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# Posted: 13 Nov 2006 09:50
This might be one reason to have the Olympics given a neutral home somewhere as a small autonomous area...
I believe Sex with Men is Divine and draws me closer to my Gods. Kama's website |
Monte Devanara
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Dikshita
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# Posted: 13 Nov 2006 10:28
Quoting: Kama This might be one reason to have the Olympics given a neutral home somewhere as a small autonomous area...
.....you mean like the Vatican???LOL
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BandR
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Bhakta
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# Posted: 13 Nov 2006 11:08
In my opinion, the death penalty is uniquely immoral.
Rape, torture, imprisonment, mutilation and murder are all used as tools of oppression by states around the world. Of these, all are considered illegal by the majority of jurisdictions except state sanctioned murder.
For all these crimes – except murder – the victims can expect to take the perpetrators to task. It may take many years but there is a good chance.
http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2006/10/31/chile14491.htm
If the IOC decided to exclude states that execute prisoners they would be punishing the state whilst not passing any judgement on the athletes and population. This would ease the ethical dilemma of athletes rather than intensifying it.
Yes. We would not again choose Atlanta or Los Angeles but we could pick a city in Alaska, Hawaii, Iowa, Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, North Dakota, Rhode Island, Vermont, West Virginia or Wisconsin. I think there might be some support for the Honolulu games.
B&R
I believe that Sex with Kama draws me closer to her gods. |
Cuni
Member
Gender: Male
Bhakta
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# Posted: 13 Nov 2006 19:20
wot about Luton?
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Frank de Groot
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Bhakta
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# Posted: 14 Nov 2006 03:22 - Edited by: Frank de Groot
The next Olympics in Liechtenstein or Andorra? 
The death penalty is mainly a problem because so many innocents are on death row and also because I don't trust the state to decide what deserves punishment. China sells organs of executed people.
If someone kills another innocent person out of sheer malice then he/she should do forced labor or something, if there is the slightest chance it will ever happen again, lock them up for life if you have to. But the death penalty is disgusting.
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Kama
Devadasi
Gender: Female
Rishi
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# Posted: 14 Nov 2006 09:47
I just don't trust the State to administer that sort of penalty properly... and I truly believe that the death penalty should be abolished. Keep dangerous people away from those they would hurt...but I think the death penalty is used against the weak and marginalised by the strong...and that innocent people are executed as are many who could never be described as deserving of the death penalty...
I am thinking of the teenaged girl in Iran executed for adultery...
I believe Sex with Men is Divine and draws me closer to my Gods. Kama's website |
Monte Devanara
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Dikshita
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# Posted: 14 Nov 2006 13:05
How about Kama's idea of an "autonomous area" (Alcatraz??)......not for olympics, but for violent criminals - murderers, rapists, drug barrons, etc. who could never ever be rehabilitated by exisistng correctional systems? If one is to reoffend he/she can pick on one another within this area instead of the innocent victims of re-offence elsewhere in the world. Of course, while the moral dilema posed by the death penalty could be addressed this way, there remains the question of those mistakenly convicted of a violent crime.
Further, I think the UN should be stripped of its mandate to intervene in human rights and justice matters. This should be the sole jurisdiction of a much superior Organization for Humanity (OH). The UN was conceived after WWII to justify the policies of imperialists.....licence to do wrong things purpeted to be for good reasons (US funding and arming the Taliban via Pakistan to chase out the Soviets from Afghanistan; US/UK arming Iraq to defeat Iran!!!). Besides, most UN sanctions have had insignificant effects in the long run because abusive regimes take the stance that a county's soverignity is compromised by allowing UN to intervene under its exisiting rather weak constitution. The OH, on the other hand could be constituted in such a manner and with such powers that, interests of humanity would be in the fore front and stand superior to constitutions and interests of individual nations.....the Iraq war may have never happened, yet Saddam and his cronies would have been dealt with accordingly. Situations in Iran such as those mentioned by Kama as well as those that we hear of in tribal Pakistan and rural India could also be taken up by the OH. Then there's Myanmar, Rwanda...(??)..... situations which should have never been allowed to be sustained, but then they are of very little economic significance to the west and, thus to the UN.
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BandR
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# Posted: 14 Nov 2006 14:49
Quoting: Frank de Groot so many innocents are on death row
In the USA, the death penalty is a tool of racial oppression.
"In 82% of the studies [reviewed], race of the victim was found to influence the likelihood of being charged with capital murder or receiving the death penalty, i.e., those who murdered whites were found more likely to be sentenced to death than those who murdered blacks."
- United States General Accounting Office, Death Penalty Sentencing, February 1990. Source Death Penalty Information Centre.
The same is probably true elsewhere but I don't have the stats.
B&R
I believe that Sex with Kama draws me closer to her gods. |
Cuni
Member
Gender: Male
Bhakta
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# Posted: 14 Nov 2006 16:07
I am just horrified when you get the texans on TV telling how they support the death penalty. FFS who really trusts the Government not to judicially murder people it doesn't like, with foriegners top of that list.
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Angelus
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Dikshita
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# Posted: 30 Dec 2006 00:13
As much as my subjective side says "hang 'em!" when I hear about people committing haenous crimes; The simple fact is that the dealth penalty is only an option in achieving justice when it is used as a deterrent. Clearly, murders haven't stopped occurring in areas where the death penalty is in place. That is my main objection to it
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